A fix to the low rank Elo Alts

Many people see that elo has been a huge problem the past few months, whether it has been gambling, farming, using alts, using other players accounts and so on.

I have an idea that might fix the problem with alts being placed in the "seasonal elo" list. Considering a lot of players are furious about having low ranks as alts and farming elo.

Remove low ranks from the seasonal elo bracket all together. Other games for example like League of Legends does this exact system to prevent farming of elo.

Players should have to be at least rank 8 or higher in order to duel. This would pretty much make alt's useless for farming elo.
It's simple, once you are rank 8 you can duel, anytime below that you cannot, that means players would have to commit to the game in order to join the competitive scene. It makes sense since low ranks are not competitive and don't care about elo anyway, so no point in making an alternate account.

An idea to try to fix alt farming. And also fix farming low ranks.

AND BTW IF WE MADE 2 BRACKETS, 1 FOR LOW RANKS AND 1 FOR HIGH RANKS, WE ALL KNOW THAT PEOPLE WILL CREATE ALTS AND DOMINATE THE LOW RANK BRACKET SO THERE IS NO POINT.

No support. A better suggestion would be to create two seasonal elo brackets. One for the low ranks and one for the high ranks.

Skrivet av theFuehrer, 10.05.2016 at 01:57

No support. A better suggestion would be to create two seasonal elo brackets. One for the low ranks and one for the high ranks.

I thought about that too, but we all know the low ranks are going to be filled with only alts, so it's pretty much no point.

Skrivet av PleaseMe, 10.05.2016 at 02:04

Skrivet av theFuehrer, 10.05.2016 at 01:57

No support. A better suggestion would be to create two seasonal elo brackets. One for the low ranks and one for the high ranks.

I thought about that too, but we all know the low ranks are going to be filled with only alts, so it's pretty much no point.

Good point. Support
EDIT: Besides, the all-important infantry upgrades too can be obtained only by Rank 7-8

Skrivet av PleaseMe, 10.05.2016 at 02:04

I thought about that too, but we all know the low ranks are going to be filled with only alts, so it's pretty much no point.

That may be the case. But it would be unfair to all the low rank guys if this suggestion was implemented. Maybe some new players do want to be competitive..

Let's imagine we had two elo brackets. The high rank guys wouldn't care who's #1 on the low rank season bracket, it would not affect us.

Don't punish the majority for the few.

Skrivet av theFuehrer, 10.05.2016 at 02:20

Skrivet av PleaseMe, 10.05.2016 at 02:04

I thought about that too, but we all know the low ranks are going to be filled with only alts, so it's pretty much no point.

That may be the case. But it would be unfair to all the low rank guys if this suggestion was implemented. Maybe some new players do want to be competitive..

I want to be competitive which is why i joined enigma.
I support 2 elo brackets. But PleaseMe makes a good point. Alts and trolls will be a pain.

Skrivet av theFuehrer, 10.05.2016 at 01:57

No support. A better suggestion would be to create two seasonal elo brackets. One for the low ranks and one for the high ranks.

This would be way worse... making a job for alts easier

Skrivet av Goblin, 10.05.2016 at 02:26

This would be way worse... making a job for alts easier

Hmm, job? The problem is these 'alts' can be #1 in our current season elo bracket, right? Why would it matter if the 'alt' was #1 in their own bracket?

Let them glory amongst themselves.

Skrivet av Goblin, 10.05.2016 at 02:26

Skrivet av theFuehrer, 10.05.2016 at 01:57

No support. A better suggestion would be to create two seasonal elo brackets. One for the low ranks and one for the high ranks.

This would be way worse... making a job for alts easier

There is no job for alts. If we don't allow duels between ranks 1-7, that means we take away alt farming for good. Unless they really want to spend weeks trying to get to rank 8. If they really want to be a part of the community, and the competitive scene regular players only have to play a few weeks before they can join duels, what's the harm in that? Other games do it, why can't we?

One of the main problems that we are having right now is retaining new payers. If we remove duels, the game might become less exciting for lower ranks and they might have a higher chance of leaving the game. We need to keep the dueling feature for everyone.

Rank 8 seems harsh, it takes several months to reach that, I would rather do it rank 6, rank 5 is reached within a few days, r6 do take commitment

Overall support though (2nd time ever I support Mecoy )

Skrivet av Goblin, 10.05.2016 at 03:09

Skrivet av PleaseMe, 10.05.2016 at 02:52

There is no job for alts. If we don't allow duels between ranks 1-7, that means we take away alt farming for good. Unless they really want to spend weeks trying to get to rank 8. If they really want to be a part of the community, and the competitive scene regular players only have to play a few weeks before they can join duels, what's the harm in that? Other games do it, why can't we?

you dont know that i proposed few times already that duels be allowed only after rank 6...

i posted that to ivan, see what he thinks.

Skrivet av Mia., 10.05.2016 at 03:10

One of the main problems that we are having right now is retaining new payers. If we remove duels, the game might become less exciting for lower ranks and they might have a higher chance of leaving the game. We need to keep the dueling feature for everyone.

What low ranks duel though, i didnt even know what elo was until i was r7. On the other hand we have had high ranks farming low ranks with duel reqs and alts farming them. We have had 1 asshole after the other attempting to exploit the duel/cw systems and patch after patch has had to be applied.This would solve most of our duel problems. Also seems to me like it would give low ranks something to aim for.

Skrivet av Ruse, 10.05.2016 at 07:23

Stop crying if u cant beat rank5 alts dont duel then fucking noobs...

What... its not about that ffs... its about them only dueling in their alt rank range and that way achieving high elos

Skrivet av Ruse, 10.05.2016 at 07:23

Stop crying if u cant beat rank5 alts dont duel then fucking noobs...

Citera:

Citera:

There is no job for alts. If we don't allow duels between ranks 1-7, that means we take away alt farming for good. Unless they really want to spend weeks trying to get to rank 8. If they really want to be a part of the community, and the competitive scene regular players only have to play a few weeks before they can join duels, what's the harm in that? Other games do it, why can't we?

What low ranks duel though, i didnt even know what elo was until i was r7. On the other hand we have had high ranks farming low ranks with duel reqs and alts farming them. We have had 1 asshole after the other attempting to exploit the duel/cw systems and patch after patch has had to be applied.This would solve most of our duel problems. Also seems to me like it would give low ranks something to aim for.

I think both of you are forgetting that there are actually plenty of low ranks who duel, I know I was dueling heavily starting at rank 4 and by the time I was rank 7 had beaten most "high rank" players in this game including both of you. Heat Check was the same way, and had OP elo as a rank 6 playing 5k duels against "high ranks" at the time, there are many more who enjoy dueling. So the solution would not be to take duels away from them, as Mia said we already have a hard enough time keeping players. This would certainly drive many away as I know I stuck with this game due to the competitive scene and dueling in general even as a low rank.

Lets not burn the forest for the couple of bad trees, Lao is 100% correct when he says "We have had 1 asshole after the other attempting to exploit the duel/cw systems". But realistically this is a very small number of people and it is quite obvious who is abusing the system. That is exactly why we have a Mod team in place, and while it creates work for mods (sorry mods) I think the best solution is to just continue removing the 1-3 players a season who farm their way into the top and let everyone continue on their merry way dueling.

With this said, a rank limit of 5 for duels I think I could support, but anything over 5 would severely hurt the game in my opinion as I know from rank 6 onward, myself and many other players loved the dueling aspect of the game, and we should not take that away from new players. It is just a game after all, and removing the couple of bad apples from the leader boards each season is not such a hassle as to merit taking away a huge part of the game for many, many users.

Skrivet av Prometheus, 10.05.2016 at 08:59

I think both of you are forgetting that there are actually plenty of low ranks who duel, I know I was dueling heavily starting at rank 4 and by the time I was rank 7 had beaten most "high rank" players in this game including both of you. Heat Check was the same way, and had OP elo as a rank 6 playing 5k duels against "high ranks" at the time, there are many more who enjoy dueling. So the solution would not be to take duels away from them, as Mia said we already have a hard enough time keeping players. This would certainly drive many away as I know I stuck with this game due to the competitive scene and dueling in general even as a low rank.

Lets not burn the forest for the couple of bad trees, Lao is 100% correct when he says "We have had 1 asshole after the other attempting to exploit the duel/cw systems". But realistically this is a very small number of people and it is quite obvious who is abusing the system. That is exactly why we have a Mod team in place, and while it creates work for mods (sorry mods) I think the best solution is to just continue removing the 1-3 players a season who farm their way into the top and let everyone continue on their merry way dueling.

With this said, a rank limit of 5 for duels I think I could support, but anything over 5 would severely hurt the game in my opinion as I know from rank 6 onward, myself and many other players loved the dueling aspect of the game, and we should not take that away from new players. It is just a game after all, and removing the couple of bad apples from the leader boards each season is not such a hassle as to merit taking away a huge part of the game for many, many users.

Those "2-3 persons" are very harmful for the community as they make more and more low ranks quit being competitive by just relentlessly using dirty shit against them. I mean, put "1vs1" title, then some low rank joins not even knowing what a duel is? No. That's why I want R4+ limit at least for duels and I don't care even if it goes to R10+, I will still duel.

Citera:

Those "2-3 persons" are very harmful for the community as they make more and more low ranks quit being competitive by just relentlessly using dirty shit against them. I mean, put "1vs1" title, then some low rank joins not even knowing what a duel is? No. That's why I want R4+ limit at least for duels and I don't care even if it goes to R10+, I will still duel.

Yes agreed they are harmful, trust me, I think I was the first person to report what "matthew"was doing to mods, before any of the forum posts regarding him were made. I also have a post somewhere in the supporter forums detailing exactly how this kind of behavior hurts the game especially new players as you say. However I do not think the solution is to remove the ability to duel from low rank players, but to directly address the players who are abusing the system.

Put the rank limit on 4 or 5, not 8! Too much wine last night Mecoy

Skrivet av RaulPB, 10.05.2016 at 12:41

Put the rank limit on 4 or 5, not 8! Too much wine last night Mecoy

I support 6 or 7. It's easy to rank up from 0 to 4 or 5. It's harder to rank up to 6 or 7.

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

If u were actively dueling you would know that this is a terrible idea, it s already difficult enough to actually find a dueling opponent and painful enough enough to lose 25 elo. But u only ever dueled twice so I suppose u don't realize that. This would completely kill the willingness of high elo (overall AND seasonnal) to play anyone below them, practically reducing even further the number of duels played

Beside 1000 Elo doesnt necessary mean low ranks, especially in seasonnal

Cheers

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

matthew has a 100% win record...

Skrivet av Kraigg, 10.05.2016 at 13:43

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

If u were actively dueling you would know that this is a terrible idea, it s already difficult enough to actually find a dueling opponent and painful enough enough to lose 25 elo. But u only ever dueled twice so I suppose u don't realize that. This would completely kill the willingness of high elo (overall AND seasonnal) to play anyone below them, practically reducing even further the number of duels played

Beside 1000 Elo doesnt necessary mean low ranks, especially in seasonnal

Cheers

What the fuck are you talking about? What does his gaming has to do with his opinion or the comment he just made? He is right to be honest, I mean all you guys do is complain about lowranks farming their way up and blablabla ''oh poor me I didnt get my trophy''. But its also so much of you who farm those low ranks to get higher elo, or play unbalanced maps with specific picks vs ''higher'' elo players. The hypocricy.

You know what I am getting tired of? People like you commenting like this purely basing it on the '' you dont do that, so how can you say this'' or ''you dont play cw's, you cant talk about fixing cw's'' or some bullshit like that.

Skrivet av Waffel, 10.05.2016 at 14:02

Skrivet av Kraigg, 10.05.2016 at 13:43

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

If u were actively dueling you would know that this is a terrible idea, it s already difficult enough to actually find a dueling opponent and painful enough enough to lose 25 elo. But u only ever dueled twice so I suppose u don't realize that. This would completely kill the willingness of high elo (overall AND seasonnal) to play anyone below them, practically reducing even further the number of duels played

Beside 1000 Elo doesnt necessary mean low ranks, especially in seasonnal

Cheers

What the fuck are you talking about? What does his gaming has to do with his opinion or the comment he just made? He is right to be honest, I mean all you guys do is complain about lowranks farming their way up and blablabla ''oh poor me I didnt get my trophy''. But its also so much of you who farm those low ranks to get higher elo, or play unbalanced maps with specific picks vs ''higher'' elo players. The hypocricy.

You know what I am getting tired of? People like you commenting like this purely basing it on the '' you dont do that, so how can you say this'' or ''you dont play cw's, you cant talk about fixing cw's'' or some bullshit like that.

you don't even logic, so how can you criticise his post?

Skrivet av Kraigg, 10.05.2016 at 13:43

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

Just adjust the funktions. if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75, so this high level farming fags will think about twice about farming "low elo players".

If u were actively dueling you would know that this is a terrible idea, it s already difficult enough to actually find a dueling opponent and painful enough enough to lose 25 elo. But u only ever dueled twice so I suppose u don't realize that. This would completely kill the willingness of high elo (overall AND seasonnal) to play anyone below them, practically reducing even further the number of duels played

Beside 1000 Elo doesnt necessary mean low ranks, especially in seasonnal

Cheers

Looks like you dont get it... an other try:


The graph on the left side is the current elo-funktion. And you see that losing elo is capped at 25 elo. With my ideo (right) you dont have any disadvantage, when you play against someone who has 300-400 elo different, but at one point, this "won elo" should be rapidly increased. So you have to think twice about farming low elo guys

q.e.d. problem solved

Skrivet av Goblin, 10.05.2016 at 14:48

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 13:30

if an 1k elo guy wins against clovis 1700+, he will just earn 25 elo. Please rise this up to 60-75

that wouldnt change anything... change the formula like that and then two players of same skill win/lose 30 elo

you increased the numbers, but not the value...

read the graph again, when 2 players have the exact same elo (delta 0), the winner will get 12,5 elo like now
And when you have 1400 elo and play against someone who has 1100 elo, you also lose about 22 elo like now.
But if you have 1400 elo and the other guy has 1000, you should expect, that a lose will cost 30+ elo.

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 14:53

read the graph again, when 2 players have the exact same elo (delta 0), the winner will get 12,5 elo like now
And when you have 1400elo and also against someone who has 1100 elo, you also lose about 22 elo like now.
But if you have 1400 elo and the other guy has 1000, you should expect, that a lose will cost 30+ elo.

This, i sent to players when we changed the formula a bit...

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
First, the example of my last duel with against Eagle with presumptions that the admins adopted the K-factor of 25 and a chance algorithm of 400.

Eagles elo was 1502 while mine was 1405 …so now first what needs to be done in the elo calculation is calculate the „chance" players have of wining the match.

This is done by two formulas. You can notice the 400 in the formula.

r(Eagle)= 10^1502/400=10^3,755= 5688,5293
r(Goblin)= 10^1405/400=10^3,5125= 3254,6178

This numbers are used for the "chance" calculation i will mark with E.

E(Eagle)= R(Eagle) / (R(eagle)+R(goblin))
E(eagle)= 5688,5293/(5688,5293+3254,6178)= 0,6360
E(eagle)= 0,6360 E(goblin)= 0,364
Since chance is 0-1 …my chance can be easily calculated as 1-0,6360

Does calculated chances are used now in the elo "rating" formula that will calculate the change of players elo.

NewR(eagle) = R(eagle) + K * (S - E(eagle)) <------ since eagle won our duel S=1 ….1=win 0=loss
NewR(eagle) = 1502 + 25 * (1-0,6360 )= 1511,1

So the new elo rating for eagle after our duel is 1511,1 …you can see in my profile i lost 9,1 elo after our match.

My presumption that K=25 and algorithm for chance is 400 were therefor correct.

Now Elo is all about that first formula that calculates chance of players wining a match and that algorithm ...which is currently 400 in AW.

Two players of same elo always have 50-50 calculated chance, but change the algorithm and the chance changes between different elo ratings.

So i tried changing the algorithm on a example of a lets say a farmer with 1300 against a low rank with 1000 elo rating.

r(farmer)= 10^1300/200= 3162277,6601
r(lowrank)= 10^1000/200= 100000
E(farmer)= 3162277,6601 / (3162277,6601+100000)= 0,9693
E(lowrank)= 1-0,9693= 0,0307

NewR(farmer)= 1300 + 25 * (1-0,9693) = 1300,7675

So possible win is 0,7675 elo now. In comparison to current algorithm i calculated that elo won would be 3,775 …almost 5 times more.

For a player with 1600 elo to play a 1000 would mean …0,025 elo if victory. Almost a zero

Two players of the same elo, no matter the algorithm and with current K-factor of 25 always means 12,5 elo won for a winner and i don't think K-factor needs changing.

So in short retrospective and simplified, by lowering the algorithm that calculates chance between two players we make higher elo players win less from lower then them and lower elo players win more from players higher then them.

Playing with players lower and much lower then your own elo would prove fruitless and as you can see from the calculations even the seasonal elo farming would become a drag, unrewarding and no possibility to end up high on the leaderboard since with an algorithm of 200 you would already win less then 1 elo from a 1000 elo ranked player by the time you get to 1300 elo yourself.

Playing and losing against even players of 100 elo difference makes you lose 20 elo points.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: i said that the K-factor of 25 shouldnt be changed... perhapse because it didnt change anything, long time this was i forgot shit so try doing your own calculations

"Now Elo is all about that first formula that calculates chance of players wining a match and that algorithm" <--- also this sentence... you would need to somehow make the formula calculate lesser chance of wining increase more and more after that how you say 12,5 elo ------> problem!

Skrivet av Lemonade, 10.05.2016 at 14:53

read the graph again, when 2 players have the exact same elo (delta 0), the winner will get 12,5 elo like now

Its easy to make a graph... try making this into the elo formula

Lower the difference that makes 0 elo won more... is a better and simpler option for seasonal elo

Skrivet av Goblin, 10.05.2016 at 15:03

i draw a graph because its much easier to understand

Skrivet av Kraigg, 10.05.2016 at 13:43

it s already difficult enough to actually find a dueling opponent

I'm here for you babe