More Power to Mapmakers

In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.

Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.

This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.

Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.

Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.

Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.

[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell

Agreed. but all RP's should be taken down.

Agreed

Support

Martell's thread has been taken down. Clearly the moderators are trying to suppress his speech so that people do not find out that he is deleting the map due to moderator abuse of powers. Another disgusting overreach of powers.

^

Lmfao

Map strike

Problem is there really no one to regulate the mods so they free to do what ever they want.

Skrivet av KUNG PAO, 11.01.2015 at 18:25

Lmfao

Sry mods, but i have to agree with Kentuckyballs post.... that is not right to delete posts like that..... it wasnt even a troll post, like really, delete those!

Skrivet av Dereny, 11.01.2015 at 16:30

Support

Skrivet av KYBL, 11.01.2015 at 13:03

In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.

Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.

Not really what happened.
Players were complaining about being banned from maps/scenarios.
Mods asked Mapmaker to review his banlist (from maps/scenarios NOT from hosted games).
The deal was that bans from maps/scenarios should be grounded: give a reason for ban. Acceptable reasons are those that jeopardize the games, not really because I dislike a specific player.
Bans from hosted games are free: everybody has the right not having to play with a specific player. It's like a pre-selection-phase kick from game.

Skrivet av KYBL, 11.01.2015 at 13:03

This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls.

Yeah, right.

Skrivet av KYBL, 11.01.2015 at 13:03

They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.

That's why bans from maps/scenarios have to be dealt with care. Please don't ban players just because you dislike them. Ban them from the games you are hosting, so you don't have to play with them. Just ban from maps and scenarios those that repeatedly hamper the functioning (and joy) of games!

Skrivet av KYBL, 11.01.2015 at 13:03

Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.
Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.

I personally think differently. I think that maps are something like a private property of public interest and, thus, has to be protected in both ways: guaranteeing the right of the mapmaker over it but, on the other hand, the public access to it. The only reasons, in my opinion, to restrict the access to it, are the cases in which players do not allow the public enjoying of the games, e.g. leavers, wall-fuggers, trolls, etc.

Pretty sure he deleted his own thread. If there was reason for moderators to stop the thread, we'd of just locked it, not deleted it. Unless of course there was a bunch of useless comments I did not see after I had posted and another mod acted.

These banlists are not a right. They're merely tools given to you so you can have the peace of mind that you can do something when someone abuses. Grief is caused when someone disagrees with what you've done, and thus moderators will have to mediate. Do not cry because you are not prepared to defend your own claims. Columna Durruti has an adequate answer for the rest.

As I said on the other thread before deletion, these banlists seem to be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps they should be restricted a bit. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on both counts and people come better prepared when their claims are refuted.

Skrivet av Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

Players were complaining about being banned from maps/scenarios.
Mods asked Mapmaker to review his banlist (from maps/scenarios NOT from hosted games).

Mods should mind their own business

Skrivet av Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

The deal was that bans from maps/scenarios should be grounded: give a reason for ban. Acceptable reasons are those that jeopardize the games, not really because I dislike a specific player.

By banning undesirable people from my maps, i make sure other players and hosts don't have to experience the negative influence that some people can create.

Skrivet av Columna Durruti, 11.01.2015 at 20:29

I personally think differently. I think that maps are something like a private property of public interest and, thus, has to be protected in both ways: guaranteeing the right of the mapmaker over it but, on the other hand, the public access to it. The only reasons, in my opinion, to restrict the access to it, are the cases in which players do not allow the public enjoying of the games, e.g. leavers, wall-fuggers, trolls, etc.

Players are not entitle to play maps that didn't existed to begin with.
what stops me from deleting my maps? what stops me from hiding them? if i didn't wanted anybody to play them there is nothing you could do about it to stop me besides hacking my account or banning me before i do harm to the maps. But that is not the case, i want people to play my maps, why does it matter if i get rid of undesirable people? people that are banned from my maps are welcome to make their own or play somebodies else maps.

TLDR: mods should mind their own business, if map makers can't block undesirable people from playing their maps: they can always use collective punishment. The people that complain about being ban from a map can always contact the map maker and try to change his mind or make their own damn maps.

Skrivet av Desu, 11.01.2015 at 21:11

Pretty sure he deleted his own thread. If there was reason for moderators to stop the thread, we'd of just locked it, not deleted it. Unless of course there was a bunch of useless comments I did not see after I had posted and another mod acted.

These banlists are not a right. They're merely tools given to you so you can have the peace of mind that you can do something when someone abuses. Grief is caused when someone disagrees with what you've done, and thus moderators will have to mediate. Do not cry because you are not prepared to defend your own claims. Columna Durruti has an adequate answer for the rest.

As I said on the other thread before deletion, these banlists seem to be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps they should be restricted a bit. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on both counts and people come better prepared when their claims are refuted.

take a look at my banlist.
there is so many people in there, that i can't possible have a screen shoot (of high quality, because apprently CD doesn't accept low quality and small size) for every single one of them.
most of the bans happen in-game, so there is no time to take SS and document the case in the banlist.

Rather than putting pressure on the map makers for the ban list, mods should ask admins to implement a easier to manage banlist, it would be easier to justify bans etc.
1.- it needs a search function
2.- it would be better if we had a filter [Ignored, Not Ignored, Banned from Maps, Not Banned from maps, etc]
3.- Make it 2 rows.
4.- Banning by IP
5.- Showing the Date that the person was added to the list.
6.- Sorting by date/Punishment

my ban list is so big that every time i add somebody to my ignore list in order to ban him, i have to scroll over and try to find him in the list.

Skrivet av Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 21:28

take a look at my banlist.
there is so many people in there, that i can't possible have a screen shoot (of high quality, because apprently CD doesn't accept low quality and small size) for every single one of them.
most of the bans happen in-game, so there is no time to take SS and document the case in the banlist.

Rather than putting pressure on the map makers for the ban list, mods should ask admins to implement a easier to manage banlist, it would be easier to justify bans etc.
1.- it needs a search function
2.- it would be better if we had a filter [Ignored, Not Ignored, Banned from Maps, Not Banned from maps, etc]
3.- Make it 2 rows.
4.- Banning by IP
5.- Showing the Date that the person was added to the list.
6.- Sorting by date/Punishment

my ban list is so big that every time i add somebody to my ignore list in order to ban him, i have to scroll over and try to find him in the list.

A case of being unprepared.

Is it too much to just press prt sc on the keyboard, open paint, press ctrl-v, and save it after the game is finished? There's also the windows snipping tool built into all windows computers. And there's so many online screen shot programs that you can download and basically just press one button and it'll take and save for you, even upload for you. This is 2015.

Moderators mediate when there's a lot of complaints, we will look at both sides. Remember that map makers that add a name to their ban list are making a claim. The burden is on the map maker to substantiate said claim when refuted.

As for your idea, post it in the ideas and suggestions section. Rule out all the better points for it in a presentable way instead of saying someone else should do it.

Skrivet av Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:09

It's too much to just press prt sc on the keyboard, open paint, press ctrl-v, and save it after the game is finished? There's also the windows snipping tool built into all windows computers. And there's so many online screen shot programs that you can download and basically just press one button and it'll take and save for you, even upload for you. This is 2015.

is it too hard to respect the map maker and behave properly in a game?
is it too hard to make your own map?
is it too hard to play another map?
is it too hard to talk with the map maker rather than with mods?

Skrivet av Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:09

Again, it's a case of being unprepared. Moderators mediate when there's a lot of complaints, we will look at both sides. Remember that map makers that add a name to their ban list are making a claim. The burden is on the map maker to substantiate said claim when refuted.

The player isn't losing his liberty or getting a fine, in fact the player isn't losing anything that he had prior to the ban. this jury shit is bs

Skrivet av Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 22:34

is it too hard to respect the map maker and behave properly in a game?
is it too hard to make your own map?
is it too hard to play another map?
is it too hard to talk with the map maker rather than with mods?

It doesn't feel like you're arguing for anything here. What is your point? These are all things directed at an assumed trouble maker. What we're dealing with here is after said trouble maker has made trouble inside a game or map of a map maker. Trouble is unavoidable. You will run into it eventually. But you were also given tools for this. Use these tools well and don't abuse them.

Skrivet av Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 22:34

The player isn't losing his liberty or getting a fine, in fact the player isn't losing anything that he had prior to the ban. this jury shit is bs

From the view of a moderator, a person on someone's banlist could currently be denied the ability to play a certain map for potentially no reason while others are freely allowed to play it. We aren't able to watch all games 24/7, so we are usually not there when a trouble maker has ruined one of your games. But we also don't know if you just added a name because you dislike someone. Thus a simple picture would help your case. I've already given examples of how easy it is to do this.

Skrivet av Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:57

From the view of a moderator, a person on someone's banlist could currently be denied the ability to play a certain map for potentially no reason while others are freely allowed to play it. We aren't able to watch all games 24/7, so we are usually not there when a trouble maker has ruined one of your games. But we also don't know if you just added a name because you dislike someone. Thus a simple picture would help your case. I've already given examples of how easy it is to do this.

except that we don't need to give you proof of anything, its our maps and we issue the bans, now i personally don't ban people for my own reasons, but say I did, its my maps, this goes back to the whole who owns the map, and buddy it isn't you i guarantee it. we as map makers get to run our maps and b4 the ban-list kicked who we want, then we fought for a ban-list and got it out of hardwork and harsh diplomacy, now you sit here and tell us that we are given restrictions because you don't like the reason or you demand a ss every time. If we follow this line of evidence then every time you mods issue a mute or ban i demand proof and right ups in the forums, oh wait you mods say its none of our business. Back to what I was saying, we are the owners of the maps that we put our effort into and worked on, you have contributed nothing to my map and you have no say in who i want playing it, if the person breaks the rules I have have on my map I will not wait around for some mod to approve of it before preventing them from playing again, this is how it used to be and it was a massive shitfest and everything was chaos because map makers had to make lists on maps and it was never followed, now the map makers are working to end this trolling community who leaves turn 1 or wfs or breaks some other map rule, and the mods have a problem unless we provide screenshots and text evidence and claims and shit, we didn't strike to give mods more power, we went on strike to give us power, and I will be damned if I will sit here and let you take it away from us.

Oh and go ahead and delete my posts and this thread also, the damage is already done by every player who sees these posts knowing that you mods are just trying to get more power again.

Skrivet av Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:57

Skrivet av Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 22:34

is it too hard to respect the map maker and behave properly in a game?
is it too hard to make your own map?
is it too hard to play another map?
is it too hard to talk with the map maker rather than with mods?

It doesn't feel like you're arguing for anything here. What is your point? These are all things directed at an assumed trouble maker. What we're dealing with here is after said trouble maker has made trouble inside a game or map of a map maker. Trouble is unavoidable. You will run into it eventually. But you were also given tools for this. Use these tools well and don't abuse them.

Skrivet av Tundy, 11.01.2015 at 22:34

The player isn't losing his liberty or getting a fine, in fact the player isn't losing anything that he had prior to the ban. this jury shit is bs

From the view of a moderator, a person on someone's banlist could currently be denied the ability to play a certain map for potentially no reason while others are freely allowed to play it. We aren't able to watch all games 24/7, so we are usually not there when a trouble maker has ruined one of your games. But we also don't know if you just added a name because you dislike someone. Thus a simple picture would help your case. I've already given examples of how easy it is to do this.

The map make made the map, he doesnt have to provide a reason to ban anyone. Whether because the person broke the rules or because the pap maker doesnt like him, more often than not The two go together, learn how to be a mod, im tired of hearing shit about mods telling mapmakers they cant put people on their ban list after that person comes and cries to you. Be unbiased, not Quick to jump to help your friend get unbanned.

A mod is like you cant ban this guy because you dilike him, but a mod would tell a map maker to unban someone for being their friend, take your hypocritcal bullshit ass somewhere else

Skrivet av Skittzophrenic, 11.01.2015 at 13:05

Agreed. but all RP's should be taken down.

But then what would a rogue like me do?

If your logic of ''letting the market take it's course'' EA should be bankrupt. But it's not, although it ignores the players, try to suck your wallet with DLC they are still getting loads of customers.
Therefore, mapmakers can get away with banning for no reason. And guess what guys, I got banned from Martell's RP for criticizing his map. My reason was called ''constant hostility'' but how is that valid?
Unless you people can prove the devs wanted mapmakers to have complete control over their maps, mods will keep on reviewing bans as they have not be criticized by the devs, althought they have been doing this from the beginning,
while this nonsense only popped out recently.

From my view, this seems like an argument between a lawyer or judge (mod) and a bussiness man, such as a banker (map makers)... a bit pathetic... bankers looking after their interest, lawyers looking after their own power and seem to defend the poor population at the same time, a bit.

Since it's all full of selfishness, you will never agree.

Skrivet av KYBL, 11.01.2015 at 13:03

In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.

Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.

This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.

Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.

Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.

Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.

UPDATE: Martell's thread has been deleted by the mods. Mods are clearly trying to suppress freedom of speech.

Agree

Suppot

Support

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules